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#1 2009-01-07 16:17:51

AGoT Scripter

Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

:PImportant decisions have not been taken and we need to know where we are going. Making custom content is an important thing but we also need to begin writing quests, NPCs, locations, ...

There is three questions needing some definitive answers concerning "our" Westeros PW :

- When ? The timeline, when it is going to be set ? During the Targaryen reign ? After Robert's Rebellion ? During the Age of Heroes ? Are Dragons still alive ? Is magic forgotten and lost or is it at the height of its power ?

- Where ? We can possibly make the integrality of Westeros. With a map world, we can have a lot of variety but where do we start ? In the chill castle of Winterfell ? In a port of the Iron Islands ? Down in a slum of King's Landing ? Where we begin is very important, it is the place which will set the mood for all beginning players. They will all expect something different from a Westeros PW (Dorne, Dorne, Dorne, okay, I stop tongue )

- How ? What systems are we planning ? Do we want a "band of heroes" world where we roam looking for quests to do, moving from place to place when challenges are becoming too easy (World of Warcraft, here we are) ? Do we want a "Noble House" world where all players are members of Noble houses, great and small, vying for powers ? Or a "Game of Thrones" where players can make war and destroy everything with their armies ? Each approach is different and exclude the others.

We can't start developping the setting until we know what we want to do with it.

You can find a word document (on the Ressources page) I wrote a few months ago which depicts a possible way to introduce players to a Westeros PW. It was written clearly with the way World of Warcraft works (band of heroes style).

Let's discuss this and make clear decisions. The sooner we know where we are going, the sooner we can work on what's important : the story !!!


PS : Cipher, please don't ban me wink I promise to agree with you on your next three proposals big_smile

"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something."
Westley - Princess Bride

#2 2009-01-07 18:44:46

AGoT Builder

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

I think we've reached varying levels of consensus on all of these things.  Correct me if I'm wrong:

How:  (Decided) Band of Heroes style at low levels, with the option for PCs to pursue high-politics at higher levels.  Oh, and I strongly disagree that the different "How's" you present are mutually exclusive.

Where:  At this point I think we are intending to include "representative" cities/towns/areas from each main province/region. Loosely; the North (includes the Wall?), the Vale, the Trident, the Reach (North and South/Casterly Rock and Highgarden), the King's Lands (North and South/King's Landing and Storm's End) and the Iron Islands.  Maybe some miscellaneous areas like the Neck and God's Eye receiving special attention.

And maybe this is just my personal thoughts, but Dorne is easily left out due to it's geographical and cultural/political differences from the rest of Westeros.  Which doesn't mean a PC can't be FROM Dorne, just can't travel there. (I know it sucks, I like Dorne too)

Having typed all that out it sounds pretty ambitious for a spring release date... ...ehm, Onward!

When:  This one has not reached any real consensus, other than "somewhere around the time of the books" so that we have the main recognizeable lands/houses/factions.  Though there seem to be 2 or 3 mindsets within this, each with their own validity.

Near Past - Open Present - Near Future

From what I can tell the majority lean toward either Past or Future, which IMHO is the same thing just a very ever-so-slightly different take on what is to be gained.  Personally, I don't ever want to even have the remote chance of some Song of Ice and Fire fanboy telling me in a tell, "you can't do/say such and such, the book was this way".  And this scenario can really only happen if we set the PW in the present or future.  There's my 2 cent on the deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to stifle you Diwall, I agree we need more focus on these areas, but there's ALOT (alot alot) of building to do...

Last edited by therianthrope (2009-01-07 18:51:22)


#3 2009-01-07 19:31:19

AGoT Builder

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

I wasn't able to find that word document, but i have had my own thoughts on this..

When? I personally wold like to see the Targaryens on the throne, so that you don't get Lannistars or any other house both at KL and their home area.

High magic? - yes, lets us exploit the engine. Not as much as in vanilla, but if you go along a path like pyro or red priest, you should be able to deliver a nice magical punch. I wold like to see red priests with shadow summon aso.

Dragons = Targaryens. :-)

Where? I think the best way to keep the players interested, wold be to start out in the outskirts of the main action (Pyke and Dorn are good options) and let the player play its way into the center of the action. This will probably keep players who know Westeros, look forward to see whats in the next location.

If possible, it wold be nice if the player can, after a few missions, get a mission where he/she can choose witch house to go to, and work their way up through their favorite house.

This might be allot of extra mission scripting, but you can shape your PC to fit the houses ideology.

Starks: Noble and honest - Prefers lawful good, missions might contain allot of negotiations.

Lannisters: Chaotic neutral - Pays well, lots of assassin missions, and other typical rouge missions. But don't turn your cloak on them, they'll pay back.

Targaryen: Lawful evil - Brutality and little mercy. They are found of magic and mystery. Might send you missions to wake new dragons..

Nights Watch: Lawful neutral. Obsessed with loyalty, and fits a ranger class. Might bring you nightwatch ranger prestige class.

Greyjoy: Neutral neutral/evil - follow this house, and you can be certain you will go on allot of pirate/raiding/hack and slash missions..

Hope you get my drift



#4 2009-01-07 22:57:48

AGoT Builder

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

Looking back at some of the posts where discussions have been held for these issues (specifically the "WHERE?" question), I realize we aren't necessarily going for the representative areas of each region thing... which really leaves me wondering what exactly are we doing? smile

Because from what I know of the areas that people are building (the North, Pyke, King's Landing and Dorne?) they are not centralized and are actually about as far apart from each other as possible... I'm eager to hear the project leads weigh-in...

Last edited by therianthrope (2009-01-07 23:07:00)


#5 2009-01-08 02:16:42

Project Lead

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

I'll have to put off a more thorough response to Diwall's questions until tomorrow when I have more time, but regarding what we are building and why:

The build plan I decided to run with was to start in the North and work downward toward King's Landing. The North, because it will be much easier to design content suitable for low level characters, and King's Landing toward the end because a high stakes political environment like KL will require high level characters to pull off and enjoy, something we simply won't have for some time. Once Winterfell, the Wall, and their environs are complete, we can actually operate a beta server. New areas can then come online as we complete them.

That's the gist of it anyway. Pyke was a bonus. Skeletor produced that when he came on board, and I think it's so unique that it's a fantastic bit of work to showcase at this juncture. As for Dorne, that's going to have to wait until a later date.

Beta Is Coming

#6 2009-01-08 14:18:47

Project Lead

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

Ugh. I just spent about a half hour typing a message only to lose it when I clicked submit. My login session had expired. Arrrrgh!!!! mad

I'll try and re-summarize...

Beta Is Coming

#7 2009-01-08 15:05:16

Project Lead

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

Ok attempt #2.

Regarding WHEN:

Either a short time BEFORE the books or a short time AFTER. It really depends a lot on the main story/plotline we choose to run with. Right now, I'm going with a short time after. Winter has come. An ancient power has awakened in the North, but it is not of men. Hordes of Others are attacking Westeros and threaten to invade the entire Seven Kingdoms.

Westeros is still engulfed in an all out war between the great houses. The ranks of the Night's Watch have weakened greatly as the great houses have sent every able body to the front lines, none to the Wall. But the Watch cannot deal with the emerging threat alone. They need support from the great houses. Yet with betrayals upon betrayals, trust has become a commodity in short supply among the great houses and nobody wants to be the first to weaken their own defenses.

Clearly, many subplots can emerge from here involving the Night's Watch, the Great Houses, and various groups like the Red Priests of R'hllor, who may prove to be a secret weapon against the Others. It's just a matter of spinning the tale and letting the players and DMs take it wherever it goes. I like the idea of an Other invasion because it allows for combat encounters that would, as Rusty explained earlier, otherwise be quite complex to sort out. And we need to have some of this in the game in order to support "adventuring" game play.

Regarding WHERE:

Representative areas, yes, but with a starting point: The North. Pyke obviously is in the mix as well, but that can supplement gameplay. The Ironborn will have to choose whether they wish to complicate matters for the men in the North and take advantage of the Other invasion, or to aid the men of Westeros in their hour of need. I agree with Skeletor too that the outskirts work best early on, and this is compatible with that idea as well. We'll work our way down to King's Landing and the Crownlands.

Regarding HOW:

Precisely what Therianthrope said.

Beta Is Coming

#8 2009-01-08 18:27:10

AGoT Builder

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

Thanks Cipher, I like the look/sound of things.  However, I would like to put out there that I believe the farther we can separate the PW from the books, chronologically speaking, the better off we'll be, but I realize it may not be up for discussion which is of course fine, as I think what you have outlined will take good advantage of the nature of NWN.  In that NWN is combat and magic oriented, and the North is where there's the most opportunity for the most interesting combat (man vs Others and wildlings AND man) and the North is where magic basically went to hide, in Westeros and is first re-emerging, what with the prevalence of the old gods, wierwoods, and changelings and Others and all...

And to specify what I'm talking about with chronological separation, I think it best to not have any of the main characters from the books alive, or at least not serving in any visible or prevalent role in the PW events/storyline (minus one or two easter-eggs perhaps wink).  And this is because I think the cleanest slate we can give ourselves to start out with is best, while of course still having the recognizeable houses/factions.

On another topic: while King's Landing will prove to be difficult and will take lots of time to develop, would my efforts be better spent elsewhere developing areas that will be needed at launch?  I would be all about developing the Wall, or the Haunted Forest, or the Neck, or wherever I can do the most toward getting this puppy launched.

Last edited by therianthrope (2009-01-08 18:29:11)


#9 2009-01-08 20:01:22

Project Lead

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

Thanks Therianthrope. Skeletor's working on the Wall right now so we've got that covered. Unless you would rather build something else, I actually think it's good that you're working on King's Landing (and environs) now. It's a far bigger project than anything we need to build in the North so it's going to take a while longer to get that all built, which means we can provide many interesting updates even after we go live, and that'll hopefully whet everyone's appetite for the higher level political intrigue that comes with that territory.

Having said that, there's certainly non-build related work to be done as well, like creating NPCs, dialogues, quests, and supporting scripts, but I think Diwall and I should probably tackle as much of that as possible since you and Skel are definitely more artistically inclined. Once I'm done with Winterfell and environs, I'll focus more of my time on that with Diwall.

p.s. Main characters (which at this point in time only include living faction leaders in my mind) will definitely be used judiciously. In fact, I think they'll probably be largely off limits until (if/when) we host a large scale event. As players achieve greater standing in the world, they may eventually become more accessible to them, or even be replaced by the players, but I'm happy to leave them to act largely as figureheads while they are in the game.

Beta Is Coming

#10 2009-01-08 23:00:42

AGoT Builder

Re: Westeros PW : When, where and how ???

Right on, I'll keep going with KL then, I'm still trying to get the Fishmarket to look like I want, clinging to the walls of the Mud Gate... but with a bit more texturing I should actually have something presentable soon tongue


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